HATE MAIL! Hate is so unflattering

1. You obviously have me confused with the weenies in your outfit. I am a slave to no one policy. I look at issues from all sides and make an informed choice as to what I support. What I sent you was not hate mail just a correction of your biased and incorrect views of history. Being an avid reader of all histories about America,(not the rewritten ones it appears interests your group), I know what I say is the truth. I am a Navy veteran who has never cowered from anyone so if you have a problem with me lets get together. No machine guns allowed real man.

   1. Dan,

      Regardless of your opinion, I will be armed and dangerous till the day they drag my dead carcass of to the morgue.

      Hugs and kisses,
      -Frank

   2. Maybe you swing that way Frank but not me! Also dangerous is the operative word and why we don’t want you armed. Most police officers are more afraid of an idiot civilian with a gun than a bad guy. Also did you ever read the full 2nd? You know the part about well regulated militia? When the Iriqouis indians launch their next attack on the settlement you can have guns.

   3. Well Dan,

      I’m a Police Officer serving the greater Central Illinois area, and I’d take an armed citizen over a bad guy any day of the week.

      What you fail to realize is that most of the bad guys already carry and use firearms extensively. So why can’t Joe Citizen have the same tools to protect himself, his/her family, and other loved ones?

   4. Also, The “Full” Second Amendment says: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

      Notice that little comma there that separates State from People? It doesn’t say the Right of the Militia to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. It says the right of the PEOPLE.

      Now you’ll probably say “That’s just a pause so you can catch your breath”. But it’s funny how you can’t find anywhere else in the Constitution where our forefathers fucked up the wording.

   5. Actually Dan, as a police officer, I’m not worried about an “idiot civilian” with a gun since (sadly enough) they shoot and practice more than the average officer. Yes, a “bad guy” may have a gun, but he can also have a knife, blunt object, vehicle, or anything else that can hurt me. That’s why we try to be prepared for everything. Oddly enough, I’m more worried about getting hit on the highway on a traffic stop than getting shot at.

      Also, in my area, there is not a guaranteed police presence 24/7, so I don’t think that it is fair to tell people that I can protect my family, but they cannot.

      I challenge you to take an NRA safety course or training session. They are very informative and hit many of the same points as a 40 hr. police firearms course. You may even like it and want to pick it up as a hobby.

   6. Dear Dan,

      You might be better served explaining your phobias to a Dr. of Psychology, as that’s not my job. My job is, however, to teach people how to shoot people, and I do a much better job of it than 98% of the police departments out there.

      And yes I have read and memorized Article II of the Bill of Rights, and last time I checked, according to the IL State Constitution, “The State militia consists of all able-bodied persons
      residing in the State except those exempted by law.”

      And just so you understand, I’ll repeat it: I will be armed and dangerous until the day I leave this mortal coil, and there is not a damn thing you can do about it.

      Big sloppy kisses,
      -Frank

2. Hey Dan-

   Why don’t you get fully informed before popping off useless accusations? Calling us Nazis? Really? The funny thing is; the Nazis first act was to remove and confiscate all firearms from the German citizens. Now why would Hitler want to do that I wonder? How are we Nazis again?

   If you’re a “Real Man”, why don’t you come on down to IGOLD or to one of our open public monthly meetings to find out what we’re really about? Start a debate in person instead of behind the safety of your computer.

   Bigot. That’s all you are brother.

   1. Yet your the ones who brag about breaking up meetings and being rude to everyone. All I know is that organizations that follow in lockstep with the nra and and offer nothing constructive remind me of the histories of Germany in the 30’s. I don’t begrudge hunters their weapons or have a handgun if your so afraid of your fellow citizens. But you lose most people when you support machine guns, cop killer bullets,extreme magazines and offer nothing up in constructive dialogue. The founding fathers would be aghast at what you represent their beliefs to be. The polls show that 60 to 70% of the people believe that we need some form of gun control. In this country majority rules or are you against that also? I do not advocate taking your precious guns away just make it so it’s a lot harder to have a Newtown or a Colorado. If he had have to stop to reload or change clips a lot maybe so many little kids would not have been killed!

   2. LMAO! Oh Dan, Now I know your a CNN mindless zombie.

      You have no idea about current gun culture. It’s called a MAGAZINE not a “Clip” brother.

      So if the killers from Colorado and Newtown had Kitchen Knives, would you want those banned as well?

      BTW, the 2nd Amendment wasn’t for hunting or sporting purposes. It was for Self-Defense and having the power to resist a tyrannical government. Why? Because our forefathers just got done fighting a war with (Thinking-cap on?) a tyrannical government.

   3. If the killers in Newtown and Colorado had kitchen knives then so many people would not have been killed! Thanks for proving my point

   4. josh do magazines go in pistols? thats what I was referring to. sorry for not making that clear

   5. Dan,
      The English Colonists, while they had no say in the government in England, were the lowest taxed and least regulated of any in the world. Yes, they abhorred taxation without representation, but that was not the reason 14,000 of them showed up with military arms on 19 April 1775. 14,000 English subjects showed up on 19 April 1775 with military arms to defend the right of their neighbors and themselves to control the weapons of war, everything from cannon to eating utensils. On that day they ceased to be English subjects and became American Citizens. I could never dishonor their sacrifice by suggesting that you or I should have any less rights than they.
      Just as an aside, the deadliest mass shooter in US history had less than standard capacity magazines at Virginia Tech.
      If you would rather live in luxury of slavery than the dirty fields of freedom, that is your choice. I won’t call you names, and would ask that you reciprocate.
      John

   6. What, exactly, is a “cop killer” bullet?

      Please, enlighten us.

   7. Well, first off, the number of people for or against something depends on who is doing the poll. Funny, I see polls that say the exact opposite and I can also tell by the number of people who have been voting with their wallet at the local gun store!

      Now, you seem to be under the mistaken idea that we live in a democracy…. we live in a Constitutional Republic…

      “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.” – Benjamin Franklin

      And what “machine guns” are you talking about?

   8. Josh you strike me as a reasonable person. Would you please talk some sense into your Mr. Boch. He is talking about publishing my e-mail address. I ask that you council him as I did not know this discussion would lead to my family being threatened by law abiding citizens. Thank you

3. Oh Dan, Dan, Dan. It was the British gun control program that precipitated the American Revolution: the 1774 import ban on firearms and gunpowder; the 1774-75 confiscations of firearms and gunpowder; and the use of violence to effectuate the confiscations. It was these events that changed a situation of political tension into a shooting war.

   Furious at the December 1773 Boston Tea Party, Parliament in 1774 passed the Coercive Acts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intolerable_Acts). The particular provisions of the Coercive Acts were offensive to Americans, but it was the possibility that the British might deploy the army to enforce them that primed many colonists for armed resistance.

   The Patriots of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, resolved: “That in the event of Great Britain attempting to force unjust laws upon us by the strength of arms, our cause we leave to heaven and our rifles.

   Before your panties get so wound up and then throw a 5 year temper tantrum you should really use this thing called the Internet and do some research first. You are the one that would steer us down a path towards Socialism/Dictatorship/Religious regime /Anarchy etc. We on the other hand see to protect the Constitution which ensures that the US doesn’t follow down that path. You sir are the submissive, ignorant person wearing the “SS badges”

   1. Eric the key statement is unjust laws .Mostly monetary as all wars are fought for.See Bushes oil war.

   2. You should really dig into the history a bit more he is a good starting point.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalist_Papers

   3. Bushes oil war?
      Where we paid 1.70 for gas and his buddies got rich? And now we pay 5 bucks a gallon and obamas thinks that’s just dandy?

   4. your buddies in the tea party had the chance to stop all corporate welfare to oil companies but chose instead to take political contributions with our money being handed out.

4. Josh, I respect the hell out of the job you do. But I have many friends who are cops and disagree with you. They are always afraid of how someone untrained reacts incoherently in a stressful situation. I drove a truck around Chicago for 20 years in neighborhoods where you most likely would not have gotten out of your car and never felt threatened or in need of a firearm for protection. I am a 63yo white guy and I would have and buy you a beer anytime. If you would have one with me. I also point to Florida where the conceal carry law has led to so many unwarranted shootings like hoodie wearing and music to loud but that’s Florida for you.

   1. Brother-

      I respect anyone that doesn’t like firearms, doesn’t want to own firearms, and wants nothing to do with firearms. That’s gravy. We live in a “FREE” country where you can say, do, practice, preach most anything you want.

      The tragedy of Newtown and Colorado are horrible. But, Bad guys can and WILL find ways to hurt and kill people. That’s just plain fact. It’s the world we live in.

      Do NOT try and take away my tools to defend myself, my fellow brothers in blue, my wife, my daughter, or other loved ones. I refuse to be a victim to crime or tyranny. I am a free man. “DON’T TREAD ON ME!” because certain wackjob assholes kill people.

      “From my cold dead hands” – Mr. Heston

5. Dan,

   In fact, the first shots of the Revolution were fired by members of the 4th and 10th Light Foot, near daybreak, at Lexington Green. The recipients were British citizens, the very citizens the soldiers would nominally protect. The officer in charge of the immediate troops was a Lt. Jessie Adair, under Major Pitcarn. The overall commander was Col. Francis Smith of the 10th Infantry. Col. Smith had been ordered to Concord to seize arms and munitions, along with other utensils of war, from the British citizens who were living in the town of Concord, a place of central storage.

   Their only mission, 19 APR 1775, was to seize and destroy property necessary to the self defense of those living in Concord and the surrounding countryside.

   They were met by a furry of resistance, starting off with a solid thrashing of their own citizenry in Lexington, but ending in terrible ignominy upon, ironically enough, Bunkers Hill, where the Regulars waited the Navy to take them back to Boston, soundly whipped.

   Until that time, our fathers had fought with words, imploring the King to give them the representation other British citizens received in the House of Commons, and the same protections of Liberty other British in England enjoyed.

   John Adams summed it up best, when on 20 APR 1775, he wrote that they had gone from “…a War of the Pen, to a War of the Sword.”

   You see Dan, until they came for the final defense of their own Life, Liberty and Pursuit of Happiness, they did everything right, appealing to the Crown and staging acts of civil disobedience. However, when the Crown sought their final means of self determination, their hand was forced, and they began, as British citizens, as Englishmen, a war that ended with them as Americans, able to self determine their course in History.

   This is the reason the second amendment was incorporated into the Constitution before ratification, to acknowledge the fact that a man’s right to Liberty and Life were inalienable,(in-a-LIEN-able, meaning you cannot put a LIEN upon them), gifted a human upon their birth by their Creator.

   That was why they went to war.

   Mainly Citing,
   “Paul Revere’s Ride”, David Hackett Fisher

   among other works.

   Good luck to you Sir.

   1. Hey Guy-

      Can you throw some titles to books pertaining to the Revolutionary War that you’ve liked? I love history and always want something else to read.

      -Thanks, Joshua

   2. Josh, I will post a list tomorrow for you as it’s time to go. This has been fun and enlightening to say the least.

   3. I was talking to Guy Gibb, but that’s cool.

      To reply to your knife comment. I’ll just leave this here:

      http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/man-stabs-22-children-in-china.html?_r=0

   4. And I’ll offer this up… the article speaks of 6(SIX) acts of violence in schools in China in a span of less then 2 months…. As you read it, you’ll see that exactly 0(ZERO) used a fire arm.

      http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/china-news/sixth-school-killing-in-china-in-under-two-months-35273.html

   5. “Paul Revere’s Ride”
      and
      “Washington’s Crossing”
      -David Hackett Fisher

      Those two are the most accurate and extensive, both having bibliographies and appendixes that are approx 1/4-1/3 of the books.

      Also,

      “Setting the world Ablaze” – John Ferling

      “1776” – David McCullough (personally a tad overrated, and I believe Fisher is a better resarcher)

      “Redcoats and Rebels” – Christopher Hibbert (From a British perspective, interesting angles on the events)

      These are the ones in easy reach right now, and you should find easily on Amazon or your local shop.

      Enjoy

   6. MR Gibb, I will say well done as that is a very civil way to come back at me. I enjoyed rereading that portion. But it was building to a war. What war are we building to in USA? People being afraid is not a reason to wage war on your fellow citizens. Yes, there are alot of bad guys out there but it’s supposed legal law abiding people who are profiting from both sides. Selling to the obvious bad guys then pandering to rest of people to be afraid and protect yourself.

   7. Understand these points, in 1775, our Fathers thought of themselves as Englishmen, even someone as extreme as Samuel Adams (and he was VERY extreme for the day) still thought that way. We think of ourselves now as Americans.

      18 Apr, 1775, Ensgn. Robert Monroe, Msrs. Jonas Parker, Samuel Hadley, Johnathan Harrington Jr, John Brown, Caleb Harrington and John Muzzy and Asahel Porter of Wooburn, went to bed Englishmen. I go to bed tonight an American.

      The Rights of our Fathers were in debate between the Colonies and the Crown, with representation and taxes among the issues. Today, our Rights are in debate between those who believe in the Constitution and in-a-lien-able rights and those in government who would like to put a lien upon those rights, with taxes and representation among the issues.

      In 1775, the self defense of the citizenry was being taken away. That has been happening here since 1934.

      In 1775 King George was so worried about armed revolt in the colonies he ordered General Gauge to confiscate all means of making war, starting in Massachusetts. He created a self fulfilling prophesy by trying to take those weapons (muskets, rifles and cannon, ball and powder, excess food stores)of war which the citizenry believed firmly was their God given (Creator given) right to possess. King George underestimated the will of the colonists. It is almost that bad now, on the cusp.

      You ask what war are we building to in the USA? I hope none, as I, among 99.99% of fellow gun owners, Citizens all, will continue writing with our pens and keyboards against any regulation or restriction of any portion of the Constitution. Our Creator given rights as defined in the Constitution, are absolute, and only our love of human life (not just our own, but yours too Dan) has let us take the repeated kicks of tyranny while we attempt to rectify un-Constitutional laws by using our power of vote, our representation.

      Thus, my rifle can stay in my closet forever, only to be used for target practice on Sundays if I so choose, as we work to rectify the wrongs done to all Americans by those who forgot the Constitution.

      However, should the Regulars come marching, I shall look no further than the example of Issac Davis, who, when he was asked upon Punkatasset Hill if he, Captian of the Action Minutemen, would lead the gathered militia into the town of Concord to drive off the Regulars, responded with “I have not a man who is afraid to go”.

      I have not forgotten, nor will my children.

   8. In the best sophisticated voice I can muster: “HERE HERE”

   9. YOU sir are an well spoken person! And if an invader comes to our shores I will be proud to stand on the hill with you and fight although my bad hip would most likely slow me down a tad. Where is it stated that the regulars are coming for your weapons? This is only a hysteria fostered by nra to promote their platform. I would think that you gun owners would police the legal shop owners and gun show sellers who sell to anyone so long as they make their profits. You would not have so many armed bad guys if this happened.

6. Guys you can’t have a battle of wits with an unarmed man youll lose every time.
   Don’t waste your time the kool aid is to strong.

7. Dan said, “But you lose most people when you support machine guns, cop killer bullets,extreme magazines.”

   And right there is why you are laughed at. Well, there are other things dribbling out your mouth, but to anyone that understands firearms, that comment is the equivelent of a moron walking into a mechanic and talking shop.

   So.. If you want to put your tampon away for a minute and listen I’ll fill you in.

   Issue 1: Machine guns – Severely restricted since 1934. The people who own machine guns, because they are extremely expensive tend to be doctors, lawyers and CEO’s of major companies. Wait for it.. The AR15 is NOT a machine gun. It is a semi-automatic rifle. How even a leftist fool doesn’t know this by now really makes you look bad.

   Issue 2: Cop Killer Bullets – There is not, nor has there even been a such thing as a cop killer bullet. Many years ago some idiots who you probably voted for tried to tell people teflon coated bullets would penetrate soft body armor and actually succeeded in getting these rounds banned. Extensive testing proved coating a bullet in teflon doesn’t make it more effective vs. body armor. Today, idiots you probably voted for are calling the .223 a “Cop Killer Bullet.” Wait for it.. Every modern rifle caliber out there will penetrate soft body armor. That is why police wear Trauma plates to defeat rifle rounds.

   Issue 3: Extreme Magazines – Ok.. Define an “Extreme” magazine. You can’t? Well, well, well. That’s probably because there is no such thing. There are internal and external magazines. There are rotary magazines, box magazines, and drum magazines to name a few. Some are charged by stripper clips and some are charged by en bloc clips. All detachable magazines allow for faster reloading and have been around since before World War 1 in the same capacities we can own now. So in nearly 100 years the detachable magazines we have today equal 100 year old technology. Yet 100 years ago, simple minded, bleeding vagina’s like you didn’t exist at least to as much an extent. That’s all that has changed from then to now.

   Thanks for playing. Now go make me a sammich!

   1. Frank, your name calling belittles you. Largest magazine should be three rounds. If you need more than that you should not be hunting or shooting anyways. And your oraganization is teaching ways around the law or the gun mechanic would not be afraid to say how many he has illegally made. The sammich I would make for you is a shit filled one since you are overflowing with it. It’s great to have stereotypes like you to point to so a point can be proven. Thanks

   2. So the woman that shot an intruder four times (out of the five in her revolver) should only be allowed three round of ammunition? Funny, how the intruder lived after being successful hit four times. What about a gang of attacks? Two, Three, Four individuals looking to burglarize a home and gang rape a woman that’s home alone?

      Wolves travel in packs my friend.

   3. where is this happening? there are hundreds of instances where innocent people have been injured with legal guns.

   4. Re:Dan Hull

      I live in an upper middle class neighborhood in Northern Virginia. The typical location considered boring and ultra-safe. A couple years ago my 60 year old neighbor (six doors down) and his wife were out for a Sunday morning walk at dawn, as was their habit. Suddenly a van stopped next to them and 4 gang members jumped out and attacked them just 3 blocks away from my house. Sadly my neighbor didn’t have a weapon. He was beaten to death. His wife was severely beaten and gang raped in the van and dumped along the road. It took over six months for her to recover physically, she never recovered emotionally.

      If my neighbor had a weapon that morning, you believe he should have been limited to 3 rounds. Really? Just exactly how do you stop 4 drug addled gang bangers with 3 rounds? Why do you or anyone else get to tell me or my neighbors how many round of ammunition we need to protect ourselves?

      Despite that incident, I feel reasonably safe in my neighborhood. But I still carry my 9mm when I walk my dog, along with at least one spare magazine.

      You do realize even the Brady Center admits that private citizens safely use guns to stop violence every year. Their low ball estimate (108,000) is still almost an order of magnitude higher than the total number of gun homicides (16,000). Exactly how is allowing those 108,000 acts of violence to be perpetrated a good thing?

   5. Wait who started that name calling originally? Hmmm

   6. The name calling started when Ill. rifle assn. invaded meeting instead of having reasonable discourse

   7. Also Eric I called a few names and your world was set ablaze. You don’t like it. Well neither do we on the other side of the equation! If you don’t support guns you are unamerican, a vagina, a pantywaist an idiot and so on .Lets drop the name calling on both sides and discuss the issues OK!

8. RB, I have trained on guns and would be able to fire safely most of them. I choose not to as is my right. I do agree with you about standing on side of road and being afraid. Never know when next texting idiot is not paying attention! What I want to happen is have reasonable people get together and decide how to keep guns out of unstable hands. Legal or illegal. How is it that “legal gun sellers” sell batches of guns to straw men who then sell them to the bad guys but say they are not responsible. Full background checks and registration and if you sell a gun to a bad guy you are responsible if thats what you do for a living.

9. Dan-

   Msnbc, CNN, ABC, and all the other mass media outlets aren’t going to show you how a firearm protected or saved lives. It’s because it isn’t in their political agenda. Start here and Research:

   http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57562397-504083/georgia-mother-hides-children-shoots-intruder-5-times-during-home-invasion-police-say/

   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/23/umass-amherst-gang-rape

   WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. — A 14-year-old boy has confessed to being among the masked teens who gang-raped a woman at gunpoint and assaulted her son in their West Palm Beach home, police said.
   Investigators said Avion Lawson admitted to the crime shortly after he was arrested Tuesday afternoon.
   Lawson was linked to the crime after police said they matched DNA evidence found on a condom in the victim’s home to the teen.

   http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/01/21/Guns-Stop-Three-Home-Invasions-And-Store-Robbery

   http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/02/26/2709853/brothers-charged-with-four-home.html

   Shall I go on?

10. Dan, no one here is hoping for or anticipating some kind of war, but to make oneself unarmed towards that cause is like driving without your seat belt because you do not anticipate or hope for an accident. We live in a very unique bubble of human history, one of prosperity and peace at least within our borders, but the mass of human history would dictate that you cannot rely on things to remain this way forever, or for a lifetime, or your children’s lifetimes. Let me put it this way, attempted seizure of weapons was the spark that set off the American war of secession and it will be the spark that sets off the next one. I would think that anyone who is conscientious of politics would be wary of the way that liberties have been threatened in the eyes of people on the right and left, certainly I know plenty of liberals who were afraid of such a thing under George W. Bush, so why would you leave a monopoly of power under such a ruler? I leave you with my favorite quote. “Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave.” – Andrew Fletcher 1698 That man was also a British subject, but he lived back in the homeland, 100 years before our revolution; what a unique thought, it’s almost as if the right to personal arms preceded the Bill of Rights.

    1. Josh, I like you. you most likely don’t like me so much . LOL See my reason for name calling in answer to Eric. If I had known how dangerous central illinos was I would not have sent both my kids there for college.LOL I will check out books Mr. Gibb suggested although I believe I have read a couple of them.

    2. Josh, show me one suggestion to seize the guns you own. not saying that saying military grade weapons designed to kill as many as possible as quickly as possible have no place in society except the military. thats all

    3. Oh lets see here:

       -Assault Weapons Ban currently being proposed by Sen. Feinstein

       -Magazine Bans
       -Registration Bills
       -Assault Weapons Ban between ’94-’04
       -Bills banning private to private transfers/sales

       They all serve to disarm American.

       And for the record, I don’t even know you. I don’t judge that quickly. So saying that I don’t like you, is a false statement.

    4. Josh,why is registration so bad? and again is not private selling how the bad guys get guns? people willing to do anything to make a profit!

    5. well Josh enough for today you have a good night and be very careful out there. I do not want to hear on the news about a cop in central ill. named Josh being injured. Also it’s a good thing the email address is not published I think.

11. Dan
    I will load my magazines with 3, 7, 10, etc., if you will guarantee me that any one who attacks me or my family will only have that many in their magazines.

    1. when was the last time your home was invaded? when was last time any home in your area was invaded?

    2. In my town(where I live, not work) (Rural Central Illinois) of 2,500 people; an 89 year old woman was beaten and raped by a 17 year old teenager in her own home. Home invasions happen all the time. Even in small communities.

    3. In your well armed community did it stop this? Also sorry I judged you.

    4. You missed the whole point or you dodged the issue. I hope that my home is never attacked, but in the event it does happen, why should the attacker(s) be better armed than me? Home invasions happen frequenty in my community.
       The current gun control proposals include limited rounds in magazines, but the people that will obet are legal gun owners. Criminals do not obey laws.
       The proposed controls will have zero effect on criminals or crime.

    5. Australia banned certain guns in 1996 no increase in murders since(per Forbes Magazine article)

    6. IN the year 2008 12,000 Americans were killed with guns. In Japan 11 people were killed. Strictest gun laws on planet. HMMMMMM! The 11 was also a high water mark in 2002 2people were killed with guns ( statistics from Wall Street Journal)

12. I’ll give Dan Hull small credit. He got 5 sentences into his rant before Godwin’s law won the argument.

13. It’s simple, Dan believes in totalitarianism. He feels that it’s necessary for the state to control the personal activities of an individual and how they act in public and in private. In this case, he doesn’t like guns, therefore, he believes it’s the duty of the state to take them away from law abiding citizens or to severely restrict ownership. Sure, he doesn’t like a totalitarian state when it interferes with his own personal activities, but as long as the state is controlling an action that someone else is engaged in which he doesn’t approve of, he’s fine with it.

    It doesn’t matter what the constitution says to someone like Dan, it’s just a document that was written a couple hundred years ago that doesn’t apply to this day and age. With people like him, it’s “why do you need to…” rather than “why can’t you…”. He’ll approach the argument from the negation of freedom rather than the negation of state authority. To argue with him is an exercise in futility. He’s made up his mind and if someone is going to change it, it’s going to be himself.

    1. NO Ray I don’t believe in totalitarianism far from it. You do realize that during the George W. Bush administration you lost more individual rights than in any time in our history. Where was the hue and cry over that? When you criticized the president during bush you were put on a list and investigated. Where was the outrage then? When the reason for the 2nd Iraq war WMD’S was proven to be false the vice president ordered the outing of a CIA agent because her husband would not lie for the government.( proven by Pat Fitzgerald a no nonsense US Attorney) Where was the outrage? There is only outrage when the sacred cow of gun rights is mentioned.

    2. You do know that your buddies in the republican party banned all weapons from the Tampa convention? The party of the 2nd , the nra, and the stand your ground laws banned guns. They also banned plastic replica guns, cap guns and water pistols in their rules. Even out side the convention center there was a no weapon zone. They support concealed carry but not at their convention!

    3. My buddies in the Republican party? Hahaha, good one. Who the hell said I was a Republican or a Democrat? I sure didn’t. I have no idea what made you assume I liked Bush, or anyone of those puppets that have been elected as president for the past 100+ years. You honestly think I’m that brainwashed to believe in the one-party, do-nothing, broken system that we have?

       As I said before, I’m not going to even bother arguing with you and your unfounded and biased ad hominem attacks because it’ll do no good. It’s quite clear from your responses that you’re just making arbitrary assumptions and labeling people however you see fit to further your agenda.

14. Not only that, but Dan is intent upon discounting facts as falsehoods and name-calling to further his misguided point of view. Ironic that he’s asserting that we’re extreme leftists as the National Socialists were in Germany. A little bit of projection going on there!

    Orwellian at the least.

    John

    1. so the nazis in America are all left wing socialists? I thought that area was reserved for the commies?

15. Dan,
    I’d like to ask you some questions.

    Should your speech be restricted as a result of something I say?
    Should your mechanical pencil be limited in number of leads because of something I write?
    Should your Christianity be limited because of a Muslim’s action?
    Should your right to assemble be abridged because of Chicago gangs?
    Should your right to contact a legislator be limited because some once threatened them?

    These are examples of my real question.
    Is government empowered to infringe upon and abridge your enumerated rights because you might commit a crime or because another has commuted a crime ?

    Or is it in fact true that each individual is innocent until proven guilty and their rights are due them until such time as they actually do commit a crime and are tried and convicted by a jury of their peers?

    It will be interesting to see if you have straight forward answers to straightforward questions….

    1. Ok Ashrak, 1st amendment freedom of religion you are not allowed to have the ritual sacrifice of human beings in your religion. The right is not an absolute.freedom of speech is restricted as you are not allowed to stand in a crowded theater for example and yell fire. Are the gun show sellers who sell guns to people without background checks innocent? The bad guys are buying guns from somewhere. Not every weapon used in a crime is stolen. Many people who support gun rights are selling to the people they are afraid are coming through their front door.

    2. Your rights are modified every day. You are not allowed to speed as you put others in danger.The constitution said slavery was legal until that right was modified correctly.

    3. Interesting that you said “Your” rights instead of “Our” rights?

       Speeding and Driving Privileges are no where in the Bill of Rights last time I checked. Though freedom of speech, assembly, firearms, search and seizures, slavery, voting, etc are found in clear English.

16. What a Funny Joke!!!
    Nobody does Parodies like Boch.
    Now I know you are putting us on!
    You had me going until you got to the SS and Gestapo stuff!
    What a laugh! Keep up the humor!!!
    –Bill

    1. William Lee, what are you doing here everywhere on this website they tell me the army is coming for their guns. Are you?

    2. Well, Dan, (If that’s your true name–I still think Boch is putting us on,)
       You will have to point out where anyone in their comments said that “that the Army is coming for your guns.” HOWEVER, even if someone said that, you really should find out about a fellowship called Oathkeepers. You see Dan(or John,), Politicians and Military member take an oath to uphold and defend the Contitution (of the United States) The difference between veterans and politicians, is when we took the oath we actually meant it. So I wouldn’t count on Military member violating their Oath to Uphold and Defend the Constitution (of the United States.)
       Further, you said
       “The nra Gestapo makes sure you all stay in line”,
       I can assure you, the NRA does not dictate to me my thoughts or actions–and I can Double assure you Boch does not take their orders either. The most insulting words you have is to impugn and ascribe motives to our actions and words. Hey, we just want to secure our freedoms granted by God and Guaranteed by the Constitution. You want Safety? Then don’t create target magnets like “gun-Free zones”.
       OK< I've given you as much as I can and probably more than you can absorb.
       You really are missing out, but understandable since you don't understand those in the gun culture. We are the ones who seek to protect the flock. Paranoid? Nope–we're doing it for the Children.
       Hope you had fun, John–Er, ah "Dan."
       Is this gonna be a monthly feature??? Best as always, Bill

    3. Ps, hey, pretty cool “Army” uniform in the picture, especially with the black beret, huh?
       Note the stripes on the sleeve.
       😉

17. Guys, I’ve gotta give you kudoes. Dan’s obviously a LOW INFORMATION voter. I find it hard to believe he even knows how to shift, much less drive a truck. But my low tolerance for stupidity ran out the first drivel of his that I read. I laud you for having the patience to deal with such ilk. Very informative, if one-sided, debate. Good on y’er!

    1. Once again name calling I know I started it but explained it later. derision seems to be the hallmark here

    2. Two names to look up David Michael Keene and Jared Lee Laughner. Two well trained legal gun owners. One the son of new president of nra who had severe mental problems but was allowed to have his guns serving 10 year sentence for road rage shooting. The other a cops kid who was always in trouble but kept his guns because he was a cops kid. Serving seven life sentences.

    3. Again, how is this a gun problem? These would be to examples of Mental Health problems.

       Let’s not blame the actual person that committed the crime. Let’s blame an inanimate object made of steel, and designed to fire a projectile through the air; that has no soul, emotion, discrimination, or feeling.

       Let’s blame the video game that was originally rated “M” for Mature, and not meant for younger players.

       Let’s blame society or the background of the individuals.

       Face it; there are wacko’s out there that are going to do harm to others. The gun itself didn’t make that individual pull it’s trigger.

18. Dan-

    (Replying to your comments about Australia and Japan)

    What about England? 35 GUN murders/year. Though if you look it up, they have 3 TIMES more violent crime than we do. And they have extremely strict gun control. Murders in England still kill with Bats, Knives, Screwdrivers, Glass, Brass Knuckles, Broken Bottles, Bare Hands, etc. So if Firearms are the problem; why does England have 3 times more violent crime than we do.

    What about the State of Florida? When they started and passed Conceal and Carry Legislation; murder FELL by 39%! So magically the murders/robbers/rapists/thieves stopped committing crime? Or did they stop because they didn’t know who was armed and who wasn’t?

19. Dan you made a comment complaining as to the gun dealer allowing “straw purchases”. Well sir, look no further than the DOJ under Obama in his first term with Fast and Furious. Then when Congress started pushing, Obama invokes Executive Privilege. I am US Army Retired. Been so for nearly 20 years. As for civilians owning AR-15s or other semi-autos, I am glad they do. As a retiree I now own a few myself.

    In my life around the world I have seen a few who are oppressed. I don’t want to see this country go the same way. But when Senator Diane Feinstein goes on the record to say “ban them all”, she doesn’t mean just semi-auto rifles. She means ban EVERYTHING. She doesn’t care about the 2nd Amendment. She partially succeeded in destroying the the amendment by getting the gun band passed in 1994 under Clinton, remember? She is now trying again by using the current events. She will continue to attack until her dying breath. That is what gun owners partially have to fear. So as in previous posts, if you don’t like guns, don’t want to be around them then simply that is your right. But sir, do NOT tread on my RIGHT to own them and use them legally.

    If you still have a counter or rebuttal, hey fine. But God help ya if you or anyone you know or love are ever victims of violence. And if you influenced anyone to be anti-gun and a gun could have saved them or at least protected them, they may never forgive you. But thats life, deal with it. God Bless ya cause the criminal element out there could care less. Nothing more to say because I honestly don’t think you are going to change.

    Steve S

20. Dan,
    You appear to be the epitome of the mentally deranged that you preach should not be afforded the “permission” to own firearms. I hope you do not own any firearms at the present time, your rants are angry responses to logical statements replying to your diatribe.

    I feel sorry for your mental incompetance, it is a terrible thing to go through life as bigoted and mis-informed as you reveal through your rantings.
    As the great John Wayne once stated (paraphrased-), “Life is hard, it is even harder to go through life stupid”

    Dan, you repeat often that criminals/thuggs get their guns through straw purchasers and legal firearms dealers don’t care as long as their “profit” (the latest “four-letter-word” for/to the libiots) is not diminished. If you know of this happening, I would suggest that you report it to the proper authorities, it is already against the law,…..WAIT, …. BUT: Eric Hoder and Barack 0bama WERE involved in the “Fast and Furious” straw purchases that supplied “illegal” firearms to the “illegal” Mexican drug cartells, and they are the highest “authority” in the United States at this time, so don’t count on their help to stop that sort of activity, if the straw purchasers are supplying FOBs (Friends of Barack’s) with the needed “assault” firearms to ply their “trade”!

    Anyway, ….your rants are interresting and humerous, and it is wise to knowlearn the evil in the mind of mis-guided individuals, so please, RANT ON!!

    DLM

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