Illinois House Bill 4290, the bill that would jail fraudulent concealed carry instructors for knowingly providing fraudulent training, will be considered next week in the Illinois Senate.
It passed the Illinois House 109-2 at the end of March.
It is expected to pass the Senate overwhelmingly.
Some are opposing the bill, citing concerns about false allegations, etc.
Guns Save Life has supported this bill since it was introduced in the Illinois House months ago.
There are too many concealed carry instructors in Illinois who are woefully substandard in their training.
Let’s skip the debate over whether the training is constitutional, or even necessary… it’s what the state has promulgated in order for us to get a carry license. If you don’t like the hoops created by the General Assembly, then work to change the law. We’ll support your endeavor, no matter how Quixotic it is.
We’re not talking about being a half-hour short of instruction because of lunch breaks, but rather instructors who:
1. Provide certification without students ever even stepping foot into a classroom or a range.
2. Allow students to complete the qualification shoot using AirSoft pistols and laser training guns.
3. Dismiss their classes hours early “because they’ve covered all of the requirements” (never mind the requirements say X many hours of instruction are required).
4. Offer training “online” in violation of explicit NRA policies on the topic of “online” firearm training.
5. Continue to train people after their credentials have been revoked.
Yes, it’s high time the Illinois State Police have some real teeth behind the enforcement of the minimum standards.
We don’t need to shield, hide or cover for bad instructors.
They need to be identified, arrested, decertified and punished for defrauding the public.
I’ve taken more than one call today about GSL’s position on the matter. Two of the individuals were self-identifying themselves as fellow instructors. While one seemed disappointed, one in particular was very upset that GSL was supporting this bill. I have to wonder if his name might have been James Andel.
Yes, Illinois’ training requirement is excessive, onerous, burdensome and probably unconstitutional.
Until and unless a court determines the requirement unconstitutional, we have a moral and ethical duty to conduct ourselves in a lawful manner and call out those who break the law – particularly when the lawbreakers are doing so for personal financial gain.
seems to me over zealous persecutors and vindictive competitors could have a field day with this –
bad bill should be opposed
??? “over zealous prosecutors”??? “vindictive competitors”??? like prosecutors are not overburdened and have the time to bother with instructors that are abiding by the ISP standards, and any certified instructors have enough business, why would they bother UNLESS an instructor is a substandard FRAUD?
I agree should be opposed. Just a matter of time till antis start attending classes for the sole purpose of hurting pro gun organizations.
Yeah. Anti gunners spending $200-300 to attend class and get exposed to icky guns?
To write a complaint that someone only spent 15:12 on instruction and the rest of the time was breaks between hourly segments? C’mon.
Ain’t happenin’.
Sooo, J K, you think substandard “instructors” should be able to perpetrate FRAUD, certifing someone as properly instructed according to rules set by the ISP when they are NOT properly instructed, receive compensation for that FRAUD, and NOT be held accountable for these deliberate actions? How would you feel if you had been a “student” of one of these incompetants, had to go through the training again with an honorable instructor, spending ANOTHER 2-3 hundred dollars and another 2 days of training before you could even apply for your permit again? You, sir, need to re-think your position.
Need to work on getting rid of laws not making more.
Why is it a “bad bill”? Because of what “could” happen?
The sky hasn’t fallen for anyone after passage of the CCW bill.
I don’t see that changing after HB4290 passes.
John
I’m with John.
Some of the caterwauling about this bill are simply nonsense.
It’s not like investigating officers and prosecutors are unreasonable folks. It’s a Class A misdemeanor, not the Lindbergh baby kidnapping.
Spending some time behind bars would seem a good deterrence to malfeasance teaching classes.
And if instructors are cutting it so close that they believe this bill would endanger them, then perhaps they should get out of the teaching business.
Sam
I’m with John on this one. It would be much better if this industry would police itself, but it’s already been shown that we won’t, even as hard as some gun organizations tried to accomplish it.
I would much rather deal with the unlikely risk of ISP charging some instructor who is merely marginal than deal with the carnage and blowback when bad shoots hit the news because people weren’t provided the training they paid for.
Just another bill that will become a law we dont need!
until fools get hoisted with their own petard.
Again.
See there are more trainers right now than applicants. Gotta thin the herd so only the certain blessed and allowed remain.
Some just never learn….
Don’t hold your breath waiting for that.
Sam
You see, just as the FCCL itself has already ensnared some good guys, and will continue to do so, so too will this debacle do the same. That’s what gun control bills do.
Yeah – we need a new law that comes down harder on fraud then on gangbangers or rapists (i.e. non-probational offense) because there’s NO OTHER WAY to stop bad instructors. Guess the ISP cracking down upon, pulling creds, and making a major media splash recently on bad, de-certified instructors didn’t happen!
And don’t worry – we can trust the IL gov’t to never abuse this.
[/sarcasm off]
I pray that you’re right, John … because you’re giving “them” a whole lot of rope.
The sky won’t fall, as I wrote above.
Cook County would be the only county I’d worry about and even then, I think there are enough good people in the system there to kill off even the thought of a malicious prosecution.
John
Following yesterday’s Call to Action in which we asked members to contact Senate Sponsor Michael Connelly at senatorconnelly21@gmail.com , we now ask that you build on that effort by contacting every member of the Senate Judiciary Committee to share our concerns.
These members will hear the bill in committee on 4/29/2014:
Senator Raoul: info@kwameraoul.com
(773) 363-1996
(773) 681-7166 FAX
Senator Mulroe: senatorjohnmulroe@att.net
(773) 763-3810
(773) 763-3881 FAX
Senator Haine: senatorhaine@senatedem.illinois.gov
(618) 465-4764
(618) 465-4816 FAX
Senator Harmon: dharmon@senatedem.ilga.gov
(708) 848-2002
(708) 848-2022 FAX
Senator Hastings: mhastings@senatedem.ilga.gov
708) 283-4125
(708) 253-1313 FAX
Senator Hutchinson: info@toihutchinson.com
(708) 756-0882
(708) 756-0885 FAX
Senator Noland: noland@senatedem.state.il.us
(847) 214-8864
(847) 214-8867 FAX
Senator Silverstein: silverstein@senatedem.state.il.us
(773) 743-5015
(773) 743-4750 FAX
Senator Dillard: senator@kdillard.com
(630) 969-0990
(630) 969-1007 FAX
Senator Barickman: jason@jasonbarickman.org
(309) 661-2788
(309) 210-5544 FAX
Senator LaHood: SenatorLaHood@att.net
(309) 693-4921
(309) 693-4923 FAX
Senator Righter: drighter@consolidated.net
(217) 235-6033
(217) 235-6052 FAX
The concerns we ask that you voice to these committee members are:
> Under HB4290 an instructor charged with falling short of the required training for a class of 20 students will face revocation of credentials, up to 1 year in prison, and a maximum $62,000 penalty
> An instructor who was the subject of a recent Illinois State Police press release, under HB4290 language, would face maximum fines and surcharges totaling $1,021,875 in addition to revocation of credentials and prison.
> HB4290 does not explain how charges against out of state instructors will be handled. Will they be extradited for trial and sentencing, or will they face nothing more than revocation of credentials with only Illinois instructors being subject to the full brunt of these outrageous penalties
> HB4290 offers no guarantee of restitution to the aggrieved students, making them the potential victim of both the instructor’s and the State’s indifference to their rights
> There are no safeguards against false allegations, whether made by disgruntled students, instructors in competition with the accused, or overzealous prosecutors.
> There are no safeguards against charges being leveled for the most minor misunderstanding or slight variation in length or content of training.
> HB4290 fails to differentiate between incompetent instruction, and dishonest instruction.
> In removing the possibility of court supervision, those promoting HB4290 seek to relieve the Judiciary of its Constitutionally mandated power and authority, vesting them instead in the single branch of government under their direct control
> The ISP already has the authority to revoke an instructor’s teaching credentials
> The ISP already has the authority to deny or revoke a concealed carry license
> With revocation procedures already in place the purpose of HB4290 is retribution, not safety. If safety was the issue this bill would have been offered in the Fall Veto Session. If safety was the issue this bill would not have languished in the House more than 2 months in the Spring Session before debate. If safety is the issue this bill would not now be sitting idle in the Senate more than 3 weeks.
If you have not already filed a witness slip against this bill, please do so now:
Log on to the ILGA Dashboard or Create a New Account first, then file as an OPPONENT at the link below.
Regardless of your position on this bill, here’s the email addresses philo listed above in a string to cut/paste into your message to the Senators.
drighter@consolidated.net, SenatorLaHood@att.net , jason@jasonbarickman.org , senator@kdillard.com , silverstein@senatedem.state.il.us , noland@senatedem.state.il.us , info@toihutchinson.com , mhastings@senatedem.ilga.gov , dharmon@senatedem.ilga.gov , senatorhaine@senatedem.illinois.gov , senatorjohnmulroe@att.net , info@kwameraoul.com
John
tanks man
tanks a lot
> There are no safeguards against false allegations, whether made by disgruntled students, instructors in competition with the accused, or overzealous prosecutors <
Hey Jon; the left is so full of hate they would gladly spend $300 to harass an instructor. All it will take is 1 or 2 instructors being dragged through the mud to put a chilling effect on "ALL" instructors and the CC training process.
Don't believe me how's Cliven Bundy doing after the NYT racist hoax story? The NYT hit piece has been proven false but hey the damage is done.
Can you say “prejudice”? Ahem.
Also, take note that SCOTUS just upheld the good old “anonymous tip” factor.
Those supporting this are foolishly trying to corner a market they supported – with full intention to corner it. They are guilty of becoming the controllers they claim to oppose.
DLMG40SL, I’m not against taking fraudulent instructors licenses away at all and I’m pretty sure that already happens without this bill. I’m saying this as written would make a great tool for antis. I’m on your side as far as fraud goes and would hate to be the student that got his permit taken away because there was a rat in the classroom who couldn’t keep his/her mouth shut about leaving 15 minutes early or something stupid like that. We now live in a country full of crybabies who are making a big deal out of nothing and this will only make it worse. I know I’m not supposed to bring this up but my 8hr NRA basic pistol class with shooting time should have been enough to begin with but once again the nra and isra caved in.